I have always been curious about the relationship between rivers \ creeks and lakes, those lakes of which that are connected to the creek or river. Muskie for example are now everywhere on the Fox and I always figured the only spot they came from were the chain "o" lakes. However through the years I have heard that the fox has also gotten them from Lake Holiday via Somanauk creek and from Shabbona through Indian creek. I have also wondered if Muskies are found on the Fox in the Wisconsin portion above the lakes. Will walleyes ever transfer in the lakes off the creeks. I will often think about this when we are at Big Rock Forest perserve either fishing the creek or lake. I have caught plenty of small mouth out of that lake , some very big. I would think some lakes like that would be a spot where these fish would go deep for the winter. The only fish I see being caught out of that lake are Bass, Crappie, Gills and cats. Why would that lake not have any walleye from the Fox via the creek or even muskie. With that lake being deep , I figured that you might find them in there. Maybe they are for all I know. I just have this interest in the movement of the fish in this whole area relative to the fox and coming in and out of lakes. Any feed back on this subject should be interesting whether it's fact, theory or opinion.

I thought I was the only one who thought about this type stuff

No, I wonder about that stuff too. I thought I might get more feed back on this, I think it's an interesting subject on how the different bodies of water are related to each other by ways of the fish using, transfering in and out or using a different body to winter.

I've been thinking about this since you put it up. I know I've addressed this quite a bit in posts over the years.

I don't know where to start.

Was talking to Dale Bowman on my lunch break and we were talking about how stretches of river change from north to south. I brought up why can I catch rock bass in a few creeks within a hundred yards of the Fox, but not in the Fox itself.

Why can I catch white bass below Lake Holiday, why did I catch one at the mouth of Big Rock, but why have I never caught one below Yorkville out of the river for as far as you can go? Why have I only caught one between Montgomery and Yorkville, a few between Batavia and North Aurora, but can go below Geneva and North Aurora as far as I want and clean up on them at the right time.

There was a rumor about a muskie at Big Rock Quarry.

How come I've heard that the biggest smallies in the Fox are between Dayton and the Illinois. I've also seen pictures of some pretty big muskie being caught below Dayton.

What does that mean for the Illinois.

Why does Mill Creek get a massive run of fish around the end of September, while Big and LIttle Rock Creeks become completely devoid of fish?

If I was independently wealthy, I'd be out all the time figuring all this out.

So in other words, that wasn't a simple observation.

Most of you may not have noticed, but I have been away from the rivers, creeks, and streams for awhile. Other pursuits have peaked my interests, and I have taken on a self appointed fact-finding mission.

Here are a few things I wanted to learn about the last 25 years on the Fox river:

The Fox river has increased in average flow rate, but also increased in water clarity. -?

The amount of waste water (effluent) discharge into the fox river has increased, but it's "cleanliness" as observed by the DNR and state environmental agencies has also increased. -?

The estimated and reported quantity of anglers catching and keeping fish from nearly all sections of the river has increased, but surveys show some of the healthiest populations of forage and gamefish are now present. -?


These all seem like they would have the opposite effects, but I am nearly at the conclusion that things are not always as they seem. Take it for what it's worth, but for your personal angling evolution, don't just stop at asking questions. Seek the truth, make phone calls, go to the library, and scour the internet. I'm still looking for answers, and field research is right up my alley!

I should give you some phone numbers. I don't call them much any more. I threw away 10 years of collected river info on all the rivers around here. Didn't feel like storing it anymore.

Some things you learn only by observation. When I caught over 100 smallies out of Mill Creek last year in September, I mentioned this to IDNR's Bob Rung. He said things got better after the drought of 2005 almost dried up the creek. I said, no, it's always been like that in September going back for the 11 years I had been fishing it. He gave me this look like he had a lot of questions he wanted to ask, but his phone rang and we never got around to finishing the conversation.

Did you know Fermi lab sucks out over a million gallons of water a year. They say only during high water periods. It's intake is at Clark Islands.

Ken G wrote: I should give you some phone numbers.

Did you know Fermi lab sucks out over a million gallons of water a year. They say only during high water periods. It's intake is at Clark Islands.

Send the numbers, I like asking questions, especially to people that are paid with my tax money.


I did know that about Fermi, but I believe they pull water year round. I should give you a tour there one of these days. We could fish the creek back there, some big smallies....... "I've heard"

I lost touch with a guy named Ken Schumacher that had me back there a long time ago.
A few guys I know still fish with him. They have big heads. They like to make it look like the "fish are on" and "aren't we great" with big fish.

They're private waters.
If you don't know anyone at Fermi, you can't fish them.
Ken says no one does.

It's like fishing in a barrel. I hate it when guys do that.
__________

I never paid much attention to fishermen and fishing statistics. Don't care about them.

More info on conservation and pollution issues. You take care of those, you get more fish. 90 percent of fishermen only fish within 250 yards of a dam.

Leaves a lot of river for me.

Ken G wrote:I've been thinking about this since you put it up. I know I've addressed this quite a bit in posts over the years.

I don't know where to start.

Was talking to Dale Bowman on my lunch break and we were talking about how stretches of river change from north to south. I brought up why can I catch rock bass in a few creeks within a hundred yards of the Fox, but not in the Fox itself.

Why can I catch white bass below Lake Holiday, why did I catch one at the mouth of Big Rock, but why have I never caught one below Yorkville out of the river for as far as you can go? Why have I only caught one between Montgomery and Yorkville, a few between Batavia and North Aurora, but can go below Geneva and North Aurora as far as I want and clean up on them at the right time.

There was a rumor about a muskie at Big Rock Quarry.

How come I've heard that the biggest smallies in the Fox are between Dayton and the Illinois. I've also seen pictures of some pretty big muskie being caught below Dayton.

What does that mean for the Illinois.

Why does Mill Creek get a massive run of fish around the end of September, while Big and LIttle Rock Creeks become completely devoid of fish?

If I was independently wealthy, I'd be out all the time figuring all this out.

So in other words, that wasn't a simple observation.

Yeah , thinking about that stuff can drive you nuts. You would definetly need a life time and an early retirement to figure it all out. The Mill creek thing is pretty strange. The white Bass stat. you brought up made me realize that the only 2 spots i had caught white bass were in Geneva and below the Dayton Dam. My son realized how much fun a river can be last year when we caught almost every type of species on the Fox below the Dayton dam in about two hours, not to mention a crap load of white bass. Man was that fun just seeing my kid not bitching about getting stuck and hauling in fish. Those life long Fermilab people are probably fricken wierd. Everything is the same thing every day and every minute of that day. You knock them off their schedule and they freak out. Time change is probably rough on them. We do some work in some of the various plants such as Kraft foods in Naperville and plant supervison kind of has that " Thats fine but this is how we do it here" attitude. They just have a certain distrust for any outsiders. So I can just picture those Fermilab people thiking they are the greatest because they can catch fish out of a private lake that they stock or have stocked. "OOOOOOOOh...... this is our lake and you have to be privilaged to fish here"............. kiss my ass wierdo! Sorry if I offended anybody, I did say only 90% of plant or institutionalized type people are like that. The other 10% are just fine. Speaking of Kraft foods, we had to fix some underground pipe there a few years back. A sanitary pipe running over a concrete storm pipe had broke. The problem was that the storm pipe was broke where the sanitary pipe had ran over it. So basically you had a sanitary pipe dumping into a storm water pipe which empties into the Dupage river. The EPA detected it and basically shut down that half of the plant until we found the problem, dug it up and fixed it. Just thought you guys might find that interesting.

Ken is right, it is like fishing in a barrel, a clear plexi-glass one. It may be some of the cleanest water in the state. There are certainly those that fish it, and regularly too. As for bragging, well, in my eyes a big beautiful fish is a big beautiful fish no matter what "type" of water it came from, and regardless of who caught it.

With that being said, I do agree that the proficiency of an angler should not be judged based upon their reported success, let their actions be their testimony. That would be my take, IF

... I bothered to judge anything I saw on the internet.


Also, the areas Ken was referring to are off limits to non-employees for safety concerns, not for keeping private lakes for employee use only. I mean they are only running one of the most powerful particle accelerators in the world back there..... might be a bit dangerous to have Joe 6-pack wandering around.