Random Thoughts on Eating Fox River Fish

[Darth]

I'd be more apt to eat the squirrel than anything out of the river=)

I've seen first hand some of what gets dumped in there.


No offense of course to the guys that do eat things from the Fox...to each their own and more power to ya blah blah blah.

Enjoy your third testicle!

[Ed79]

There's pollution in every body of water you fish in this state. That's just the way it is. Lake Michigan is one of the worst offenders, yet, people eat salmon and perch out of there with no worries at all. I'm more worried about all the chemicals in the food we buy from the store, than the chemicals in the fish I catch. If we're being honest. Everything you buy has "safe levels" of some kind of carcinogen in it.

[Ken G]

There's pollution in every body of water you fish in this state. That's just the way it is. Lake Michigan is one of the worst offenders, yet, people eat salmon and perch out of there with no worries at all. I'm more worried about all the chemicals in the food we buy from the store, than the chemicals in the fish I catch. If we're being honest. Everything you buy has "safe levels" of some kind of carcinogen in it.

Mercury from all the coal fired plants in Illinois mainly, but others too. Just don't eat the fat on the fish. The more muscle on the fish, the fewer the contaminants. That's why I only eat smallies. Solid muscle. And crappie.

Had someone tell me once that if you want to be really shocked, have the dirt around your house tested for lead. All those exhaust fumes had to go somewhere years ago.

[Fishin Musician]

I get the concept, but the old adage what you don't know won't hurt you isn't always true. Working in Public Works I have gotten up close and personal to the WWD, and it just doesn't do much for my appetite. I sampled some walleyes last year a 17and a 16 incher and they tasted a bit metallic too me. Too each their own I don't think much is clean or pristine when it comes to harvesting fish. 5 years ago in Canada the guide was telling us to harvest 12 inch fish because of the acid rain and mercury. I do believe in the old adage... what you don't see, will probably will KILL you. Ken, Leave the smallmouth alone and eat the crappies.... they are the original white fish

[Ken G]

Definitely the newer model. I liked that case, it gave access to more of the camera features without having to open it while standing waist deep in water. Kind of defeats the purpose of the case. A little Windex on a paper towel and just get your finger down in there. Works wonders.

Let's see, high concentration of pcb's behind the old south Batavia dam that got blown out before it could be "safely" removed.

17 feet of coal tar under the island at North Ave in Aurora. That's why Nicor was working on that area. Used to be able to find oil slicks in the water where it was leaching up through the river bed.

There's a reason for the big area in Montgomery by the crap plant to be fenced off and off limits. Nice mounded parking lot they got their with the monitoring pipes sticking out of it.

And on and on and on. And that's just a tiny percentage of what's known about. It's the unknown.

[Darth]

I've never really had any inclination to eat anything from the river but if there was one definitive moment of clarity...it was after standing on the crap plant pipe in St. Charles. I had to keep wiping the mist off my face and lips as it sprayed into the river right below my feet.

I'm not the type to get sick but the next morning I woke up with swollen eyes and lips and sicker than I've ever been in my life....lasted 4 days.

That day we were catching something on every cast...croppie, bluegill, smallmouth, largemouth, white bass, yellow bass but it still isn't enough incentive to get me to ever return.

We could go on and on...but really why bother? Nothing will change my mind just as I don't expect anything I say change the mentality of those fishing for sustenance.

Just another one of many internet arguments that isn't worth my time=)

[Ed79]

I only eat fish a few times a year, so it's not like I'm fishing for my dinner when I go out. I only take fish here and there, when I'm in the mood. I don't go out like a lot of these guys and fill a second freezer with perch, salmon, walleye, bluegill, and crappie to hold me over until spring. I like my fish fresh.

I'm just playing devil's advocate. I ate two walleye out of the Fox last year, up north near Carpentersville. They tasted great, and the flesh was outstanding. No funny smell, no funny taste. Nothing metallic. Melted in my mouth. mmm, tasty.

As far as the comments about the crap plant pipe, well, yeah. The water definitely isn't safe for drinking, or rinsing your eyes out. Which is basically what you were doing, having the water spray up into your eyes and lips. Just the natural bacteria alone is enough to make you sick to your stomach. Same with the viruses in the water. It could be a spring fed stream up in the mountains, completely isolated from any industry or pollution, and you still have to boil the water to get rid of all the pathogens and viruses in it. I'd say that the Fox is probably in better shape farther up north near the Fox Chain. It would make sense that the water quality decreases and pollution increases as it heads downriver through industrialized areas like Aurora and Elgin.

Walleye and smallies have almost no fat content, so I don't see anyone having issues with eating them out of the Fox. Regardless of any horror stories people can recall.

[Darth]

I only eat fish a few times a year, so it's not like I'm fishing for my dinner when I go out. I only take fish here and there, when I'm in the mood. I don't go out like a lot of these guys and fill a second freezer with perch, salmon, walleye, bluegill, and crappie to hold me over until spring. I like my fish fresh.

I'm just playing devil's advocate. I ate two walleye out of the Fox last year, up north near Carpentersville. They tasted great, and the flesh was outstanding. No funny smell, no funny taste. Nothing metallic. Melted in my mouth. mmm, tasty.

As far as the comments about the crap plant pipe, well, yeah. The water definitely isn't safe for drinking, or rinsing your eyes out. Which is basically what you were doing, having the water spray up into your eyes and lips. Just the natural bacteria alone is enough to make you sick to your stomach. Same with the viruses in the water. It could be a spring fed stream up in the mountains, completely isolated from any industry or pollution, and you still have to boil the water to get rid of all the pathogens and viruses in it. I'd say that the Fox is probably in better shape farther up north near the Fox Chain. It would make sense that the water quality decreases and pollution increases as it heads downriver through industrialized areas like Aurora and Elgin.

Walleye and smallies have almost no fat content, so I don't see anyone having issues with eating them out of the Fox. Regardless of any horror stories people can recall.

Wow.

Might I suggest rather than attempting to derail my thread into a platform for advocating the consumption of fish from a river currently designated by the IEPA as "impaired"...you just start your own.


For anyone that cares...Fecal Coliform from water treatment facilities are only part of the problem...not to minimize their contribution of course.
Attributing increased pollution to highly regulated "industrialized areas like Aurora and Elgin" is disproportionate compared to run off of pesticide and fertilizer and god knows what other contaminates from the unknowing and sometimes uncaring communities bordering the river.

Couple that with a population boom of 30% anticipated in the next 20 years and you would have to be either extremely naive or exceedingly ignorant to imply that there is nothing to concern ourselves with.

FWIW problematic levels of contaminate have been identified starting at the mouth of the Fox in Ottawa...as well as high concentrations confirmed in Algonquin...it is not at all isolated to lower portions of the river.
Unfortunately...that's just beginning to scratch the surface of the issues those concerned with the Fox face.

I am by no means an expert on the matter but I have monitored just enough of the research based on actual scientific data over the years to form a modestly informed perspective....and none of this is based on pseudo intellectual guesstimation.

While the research is ongoing...all of the compiled data and datum is available to the public online.

Just can't allow the spread of disinformation in one of my threads to go unchecked.

[Ed79]

First off, Ken, if you feel it necessary, you can split our posts off into a seperate topic so we're not shitting on Darth's report. He's right, I'd rather not clutter it up with this kind of debate, and if I was a moderator, I would have already done that, and saved you the trouble. I apologize. This is the second derailed topic. The first being derailed by the talk of beer. To be fair, this topic was derailed by camera talk too.

As for your reply Darth, hey, you brought up the consumption of fish from the Fox. I was just commenting on it being no more riskful to your health than most bodies of water in this state. That is hardly disinformation. That is more or less a fact. Do you disagree with that for some reason? Would the IDPH(whose advisories are linked right off the EPA website) seriously have a 1 meal/week advisory for catfish, and unlimited consumption for everything else aside from carp, if the river was THAT harmful to consume fish from? Very, very doubtful. Those advisories are updated every year, as opposed to the water quality data, which, unfortunately, suffers from a lack of funding. Just like most DNR or nature preservation related items in this state. Btw, Fecal Coliform actually has nothing to do with fish consumption... It is no more harmful to someone that eats fish, than someone that is strictly catch and release. Risk is 100% dependent on exposure to the water, open wounds, and ingestion of the water itself. Do you wear latex gloves when fishing the Fox? What I said is hardly disinformation. I work from home, and I spend a large majority of my downtime between work, on my computer, researching things that interest me. Such as, this very topic. Fish consumption seems to get brought up on MANY different fishing sites, with a lot of "disinformation", as you like to put it. Proof is in the results. You ingested the water, and were sick for four days with swollen eyes and lips. I actually ate the fish out of the same river, and felt great. Came out the other end just how it should, as well. No ill effects.

I'm not trying to start an argument here. You'd be surprised how much I agree with you. Probably around 99% agreement, to be honest. There's no way in hell you would ever catch me wet-wading the Fox, or any river around here, for that matter. Maybe the Mazon, and maybe the K3 in some areas. If I have a cut or a scratch on one of my hands, I try like hell to keep it completely out of the water as well. All or MOST of the rivers in this state are being seriously threatened, in one way or another. Most of those issues are caused by our dumb fuck fellow man. Let's be honest here. Most people just don't give a fuck, and it's really unfortunate. Those of us that care about preserving nature in this state are, sadly, in the minority. Look at the sand problem the K3 has... In 10 years, that river might not be able to sustain half the species it has in it today. The more the sand fills in all the cracks and crevices in the riverbed, the more you'll be catching nothing but asian carp. The Dupage River is terribly polluted. So much so that I choose not to even fish it most of the time, just because the stench coming off of the water is unbearable at times. Wetlands and riversheds are at the bottom of the priority list in this fine state of ours, and very few people seem to care. Just fill them in, so we can build more expensive riverside homes, condos, and another useless fucking strip mall. Then we can spray pesticides and fertilizers on our nicely manicured lawns, to further fuck up the river system. Sometimes, it seems like we're actually TRYING to destroy them. Saying it is unfortunate, would be a massive understatement.

P.S. Industrialized was a poor choice of words for the Elgin/Aurora area. That's not really what I meant. The population of those areas, and the elimination of almost 100% of the natural wetlands in that area, has more to do with the concerns than anything else.

[Ken G]

Then I had to learn how to merge topics. I'll tell you, this shit sucks at times.

I do like threads like this, sorry Darth for the hijacking (more on that later in the blog maybe).

There's an angler name Bill, last name ain't coming to me, that I met through the ISA. His job is looking for and identifying sources of pollution that are entering the Fox. At least that's what he was doing 6 or 7 years ago when we talked about it.

He was looking for and identifying leaking septic systems. He said you wouldn't believe how much is leaking into the Fox from all the homes around the chain and all the way down through St. Charles. The highest concentration being from the Chain down to through Algonquin and to around Elgin. He highly recommends to never wet wade the Fox.

As for eye and illness issues. Again, years ago when Vic Santucci was testing all the water above and below dams, above the dams he would occasionally get some of that water in his eyes. He said because of that he had 3 of the most severe eye infections he's ever had.

Now this may get me in trouble, but I'm assuming he doesn't care who knows anymore.

He also sent fish out to have their flesh tested for contaminants. All kinds of species. Based on his findings I asked him if he would eat anything out of the Fox River. Simple 2 word answer. Absolutely Not

So, there you go. Now, the whole point of these comments of ours is to continue the dissemination of info. Even though here we are all preaching to the choir, think of it as a staging ground for if and when it comes up again maybe somewhere else. I used to think of myself as a steward for the river. Now I'm not so sure. But maybe others that read this will be some day.

And that's the whole point of these kinds of conversations. I don't recall seeing anyone saying . . . my family has been doing it for generations and ain't nothin' wrong with them. . . (see Darths' 3rd testicle comment).

Well, as I've said on other sites when this topic has come up, my family tends to smoke from when they are 16 to the day they die in their 80's. And none of them die from lung cancer. So can I say smoking is harmless?

I don't think so.